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tv   MSNBC Special Pope Francis in America  MSNBC  September 26, 2015 6:00am-10:01am PDT

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pope's arrival. i will see you again at 1:00 p.m. chris, a good morning to you. >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in philadelphia this morning. thank you for joining msnbc's special pope francis in america coverage. you're looking at a live picture right now from john f. kennedy airport in new york where pope francis is on board the jet liner and getting ready to take off for here in philadelphia, not far away. he's going to touch down in philadelphia on day five of his whirlwind visit to the united states. today the pope will give a highly anticipated speech on immigration and religious liberty at independence hall. that will be his backdrop where both the declaration of course and the u.s. constitution were
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signed. he will speak at the very lecturne that abraham lincoln used. first pope francis will celebrate the mass at the cathedral basilica at logan scare right behind me to some 2,000 faithful. tonight he will appear at the festival of families right here. with performances by aretha franklin, mark walhberg and more than 1 million people will attend right here tonight. >> reporter: it definitely it is. it is an incredible scene at city hall. we've seen families filing in
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all morning. what they are encountering here, they've shut down the city. they're going to go through mag natometers. they'll wand everybody. including the nuns that are going through. casey hunt snapped a few photos of the nuns. no one gets through security on their own. it's incredible, the lockdown. madison park because of the size of the crowds that are going to be here. the estimates are between 1.5 million, maybe as high as 2 million people here on the ground. for the city of philadelphia, the crowds are half that size. this is an incredibly big deal. talking to a lot of locals who
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live here. it is tough to do their daily business of life because they can't move around. for the people coming in who are celebrating this weekend, they don't seem to mind at all. >> stephanie, we're watching on the air here now a live picture of the pope on the plane waiving through the window. it's kind of a murky window, but it's clearly him. we've gotten to know that hand. stephan stephanie, last night my producer and i were basically frisked by the police. the police, as you say, are so careful about anything. i don't know what they're looking for. they went through my everything. every single thing in my wallet, pockets. everything i'm carrying. my producer, went through everything in her pocketbook. it's incredible the detail and the effort to make sure nothing goes wrong. >> reporter: definitely right. i would add to that, chris. >> sure. >> reporter: i would add to that, even coming out of our hotel, which is right across the street from the basilica, we are frisked every time we go through even though we've gone through
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the magnatometers. that shows the level of security. it's really remarkable. >> we're watching cardinal timothy dolan who i have to tell you whether it's over the top or new york, it was clearly one performance in madison square garden where he milked the crowd for applause after applause for the pope. it was a magical moment in real new york showmanship. he said we've been praying for him at every mass in america, we know him and now he is here. and it was the most dramatic moment. talk about show manship. the whole place erupted for the longest applause i've heard in i don't remember how long. it was sheer new yorkism at its best. let me goes to claudio lavonga. we call them a cathedral, it's now a basilica of saint peter
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and paul. >> reporter: i'm in front of the basilica where there's a number of people here waiting as you can see. they are waiving some kind of pope emoji. now they've been here since the very early hours in the morning, about 5:00 we got here and they were already here waiting. now they're not going to make it inside the basilica because inside the basilica, chris, there will be 1200 people attending the first mass of the pope in philadelphia. they were selected a among the 219 parishes around here. he's expected to arrive here in an hour from now. the mass will last two hours. he's not the first pope to visit the basilica. pope john paul ii was here in 1979. there is a relic of the pope that will be on display. it has been on display throughout the whole week of the world meeting of families which is the main reason the pope is here in the u.s. >> we're going to talk about the basilica, the church because of
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its history built in the 19th century. it has no windows and you know why, claudio, it has no windows at the bottom at the street level? that's a quiz question for you. >> reporter: i did my homework. i did my homework. essentially before they built the windows, the stained glass windows the construction workers had to throw stones as high as they could because they feared that they would break the windows and so they built them very high up so that they couldn't -- so that people below couldn't break them by throwing stones, i believe. >> you've done your -- claudio, you are an honorary philadelphian already. you know the secret of our past. it's nothing that the irish and the italians love more than their history of them having been oppressed. >> that's right. >> that gives them a certain gallantry. we'll be talking to you later. we're watching the pope take off for new york right now on
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american airlines. they're getting a little publicity out of them. this is called product placement in the movies. but the pope's going to be coming -- we're going right now to casey hunt, our colleague from msnbc. casey's at the most historical spot in the united states take over from independence hall. >> reporter: sure, chris. i found out that the pope was going to be flying american from a delta airlines representative. she was not happy he had chosen to fly american instead of delta. let's take you back to independence hall where behind me in just about eight hours or so the pope is expected to take the stage here and talk as you mentioned behind the lectern that abraham lincoln used to give the gettysburg address. there's a lot of history, the signing of the declaration of independence, the constitution. where all of our founding fathers gathered. the place where the pope will deliver, as you mentioned, that
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speech on immigration and religious freedom. immigration is an issue i've already heard come up in the crowd. we've already had thousands of people start to gather. they started showing up at 6:30, 7:00 in the morning to wait 8 1/2, 9 hours potentially for a chance to glimpse at the pope. they had to have tickets to come in here. an online auction. several people talked about getting on there to click as fast as they could to get the tickets. they're only going to be quite a ways back from the pope. this area directly behind me will seat people who have a ticket for a specific row. they're the lucky ones. they don't necessarily have to show up as early. there's as many people here from countries across the globe really. we saw banners from costa rica. we saw people who flew up from the dominican republic. we've seen people who have flown from los angeles to come here and get a chance. we talked to one man from philadelphia, chris, who lives two blocks from here. he talked about the fact that this place really was so shut down.
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the security is so intense. it's almost as if the city has ground to a complete stand still. he says he has some friends in his apartment building who decided they were just going to leave town for the weekend, foresake the chance to see the pope simply because it was going to be so difficult to get around, chris. >> casey, we're watching the -- thanks for that report from independence hall. we're watching this plane take off. we've been watching this for all the days of the pope's visit. taking off from new york. i guess he's not going to take the train. which actually could be a nice ride, too. most americans when they go from new york to philadelphia take the amtrak and then from philadelphia to washington the same way. it's just so easy for those short rides. let's hope this -- well, we're hoping all the time that it will be a safe trip for the pope. let's talk to some of the people joining me, kathleen sprose cummings is associate of studies at the university of namestnikov
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which -- university of notre dame which is place the university of massachusetts. and also the nbc papal contributor. i always like to get into arguments, which people know. >> not you. >> i look for it. i think there's a different role for the church than the government. take immigration. the government of any kind has to regulate immigration. there has to be a policy and it has to be enforced. the pope can argue for immigration but the country has to have a decent, progressive enforced immigration policy. the stuff that's nonsense that we've been arguing about and letting donald trump exploit it.
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>> the church can exploit the great principles which it does. the pope has done that. when it comes to the concrete implementation, the formulation of the particular laws, you don't look to priests and bishops for that. the pope boldly gets involved in the conversation at the principles level. the church says everything should come under the lordship of christ. that's what evangelization means. the articulation of principles, for sure, is the responsibility of the church. the pope does that as john paul did it and his predecessors did it. >> what would the pope think about a wall between the united states and mexico? >> i'm pretty sure he would be against it. >> why? explain. >> i think because he's got such a heart for the immigrant as we've heard, openness, spirit, welcome. he himself the son of immigrants. all of that is welcoming. you said quite rightly, it doesn't mean the government can't set limitations or there can't be immigration laws. of course not. there's nothing that says pope francis wouldn't be in favor of
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the law. >> what do you think? kathleen, i want to talk to you. i want you to talk to the audience. i don't know this. tell us when the irish came here to philadelphia, the potato famine, when they came everywhere, a lot of them came directly, a lot of italians came here in the later 19th century. >> right. >> the polish came here, the german catholics came here. in fact, pennsylvania was so german most of it was seemed to be determine man. talk about the immigrants and when they came in. >> when the pope was talking about welcoming a stranger when he visited the school in harlem, i was thinking about how much for so much of this country's history it was catholic immigrants who were the strangers, who were the people who were not welcomed and all throughout his visit he's been talking about -- you know, i teach history. i've been thrilled to hear him say that we need to think about what it means to be a catholic in a particular nation and in a particular history. historic figures. to come to a city like philadelphia in the not only role in american history but in
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particularly catholic history and he mentions john newman. john newman who became bishop at a time when there had been riots here. >> against us. >> because it was believed the pope was interfering with the jesuits to take the bible out of public schools. that's why catholic schools were created, separate schools. >> talk about the cathedral. >> two churches during the riots of 1844, two catholic churches were burned, saint michael's and saint augusta's. the cathedral was built there and they deliberately did not put stained glass on the lower levels because they were afraid they would get broken. it's a history a lot of catholics don't know about it. >> we knew about it. this is my mother's attitude. the idea that we are the picked upon people. even when the civil rights movement began, they said, don't talk to me about it. we had it much worse. my mom would say before world
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war ii even if you applied for a job as a working girl as she was for the mick company you had to put your religion down when you applied. jewi jewish wasn't so good. >> the papal invasion with the streets being closed, here, all of that. in the 19th century a lot of people were worried about a paapal invasion. people thought that the pope had designs on the united states. not a visit of a pope, an appointment of a pope representative. >> is this the donald trump thinking of the day? >> well, actually -- >> no. >> conspiracy theories? >> no. it was people that were some of the leading intellectuals. >> they believed it? >> yeah, horace mann who is considered the father of the american public school system. very enlightened man, very intelligent. referred to the pope as the vice chairman of hell. >> right. >> this was part of the lexicon. >> i want to get you back in
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here, bishop, your excellency. let's talk about the school system. we grew up basically in a catholic ghetto. i went to catholic school for 16 years. all high school, grade school, all the way from first grade to 12th grade was free at our parish. you could go to father judge, any diocesan school was free. there was a quarter million kids. it was in direct parallel to the public school system. >> philadelphia at one point had 90% of catholic school children in this archdiocese were in catholic schools. that's a percentage we're not seeing anywhere else. >> you went to catholic school? >> if you were a catholic you
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went to catholic school? >> right. that was not true even in a city like boston which you think as a catholic city. only 40% of catholic schools. >> i want to come back and talk about why the quaker city we're in was so tolerant and yet it wasn't. we'll be right back. kathleen cummings and robert is going to stay with us. we'll talk about the philosophy and the pope's message that has to do with family here tonight and tomorrow but it also has to do early today with the role of the leity. the pope's on his way to philadelphia. we'll talk about what he's up to here and the big reason he came to america which is to come to philadelphia. that's why s. washington, d.c., jumped onto it, new york city jumped on do it, but the reason the pope came is because of what he is going to do here tomorrow in the city of brotherly love and sisterly affection. i'm keeping up after this. gentle...
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we're back in philadelphia. pope francis is on his way here by air. he's in the air right now from new york, and this morning he will celebrate mass at the cathedral basilica of saint peter and paul here in philadelphia. that's our cathedral here. that's a live picture, by the way, at philadelphia international airport where he'll arrive. earlier, late yesterday i spoke with philadelphia police commissioner, charles ramsey. great fella. he's coordinating this massive security operation here in philadelphia. commissioner, it's great coming in here. i've never seen anything quite like it in this city. let's put it this way, this city is well prepared. has there ever been anything like this? >> i've not experienced anything like this. there was a pope here in '79 which would have been john paul
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ii, i wasn't here for that, but i've not seen anything in my eight years here to even come close to rivaling this. >> what is in your brain or mind, soul i should say in this case, when you're thinking of this coming up over the last couple of months? was there a worry you had about something happening? >> you know what my biggest concern was? weather. i was concerned that we would catch -- it's been a very warm summer in philadelphia and if the temperatures got up in the 90s, that we'd have people fainting. >> yeah. >> and that's been -- that was my biggest concern. but you can't -- >> it's very difficult. we have a lot of medical stations around, but that, honest to god, was my biggest concern. the they are or rimp threats and all of that sort of thing, that's what we do is prepare for that sort of thing, but you can't control the weather. >> what about friction in the crowd? do you expect protestors on either side of the abortion issue or something like that? >> there will be a few protestors, pro abortion, antiabortion. immigration is a hot topic.
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he's given a speech at independence hall that supposedly is going to cover immigration. we suspect we'll get a few there. i think the number of people here just to see the holy father will greatly outnumber any protesters that we have so i don't expect a problem. >> tell me about the character of the city. you were in d.c. before that. today my wife and i, what about philly. what's the character of this city? what's the personality of philly? ethnic city, working class city. >> i grew up in chicago. it reminds me of chicago. blue collar. city of broad shoulders. it's just a working class community. they either like you or they don't. they will let you know one way or the other. >> santa claus here, we know that. you do really have a police station at eagles stadium, right? >> oh, yeah. oh, yeah. definitely. >> let me ask you about the number of police officers you have here. 6500? >> 6500 is our sworn force. we have everyone on 12-hour shifts. injured officers and sick
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officers and those on vacation are the only exceptions. we have a large compliment. we have more than this to deal with this weekend. we have an entire city to protect. >> crime doesn't stop. >> crime doesn't stop unfortunately. not everyone will be praying in philadelphia although i wish they would be. >> do you recommend that people come to this city or are the tickets sold? >> they need to come. they need to come. >> an average person hears you right now, they should get in the car, subway, get here? >> they should come. no question about it. one, this is going to be a tremendous, tremendous theater. >> 2 million? >> i don't know how many people but whether we have 10,000 or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands it doesn't matter. we'll outshine both washington and new york. >> i can't wait for the democrats to come here next september. >> that will be a lot of fun. >> more drinking, i think, just guessing. thank you. commissioner charles ramsey. what a great guy. well, that's the commissioner.
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what a great guy he is. let me bring in bishop baron. the sites are tremendous. benjamin franklin parkway which most of them know because it leads to the "rocky" steps at the philadelphia arts museum is a beautiful place. all the museums along here, the barnes collection, franklin institute. tell us about the message you expect from the holy father. this is the reason he's coming to america, to come to philly. >> he's here for the world meetings of family. a huge gathering, 12,000 people are here. this is a warmup for a major gathering of the bishops around the world. you listen to the pope, he's been talking a lot about the family. he talks in the philippines about ideological colonization. he repeated that same phrase
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before congress. it was very interesting. i think when you hear about the traditional family, the pope's reaffirmation of it, how the family reflects the very nature of god as the father and son give rise to the spirit, the father and mother give rise to the children, how it's the ingredient in the very nature of things, relationship of men and women. the pope has some pretty traditional views on that. it's wrong to see him simply as a liberal anything goes person. he's got very strong views on traditional families. i think we're going to hear that at this conference certainly and maybe in the talks in philly. >> talk about the church's feel. in the old days when you got married, a woman would have to say i promise, what is it, to obey? >> yeah. >> try that today. i mean, the notion of the family, of the wife, if you will, the mother being subordinate. when that's gone --
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>> that's gone. it's a mutuality. >> that's cultural. is that the church belief? >> yeah. there has been a development of doctrines. we don't talk about subordination and the one way obedience. it's a mutuality, interdependent relationship. so i think there has been some development there. >> kathy, what do you think about all of this? do you think the church is up to date in terms of your guises testimony as an academic and woman? do you think they really get it? >> i think the issue of women in the church is a difficult issue. you know, it's interesting that for most of this country's history if you were a catholic woman, your average catholic woman probably from an immigrant background, working class family, where did you find the most opportunities for education, for leadership, for work? you found it in the church as a sister, becoming a sister. >> two of my mom's sisters did that. >> yeah. before there were opportunities for women in secular society, catholic sisters were running
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huge institutions, here in philadelphia, across the country, schools, hospitals. then in the last five decades opportunities for women in society, in american society, have expanded exponentially. the perception is that they haven't expanded within the church, and they haven't in a way. women are leaders within the church but they're not the visible leaders. not the ones associated with that. i think that's a problem. >> we were talking, everybody's political at a certain level, bishop, your excellency. the church is going to have to rowing could go niez this. i think it is. how about the role women can play if they're not able to perform the sacraments to say mass but they could be delivering the homilies. >> not homilies. >> why can't they give the homilies? >> that's tied to the very nature of the mass. >> this is the friction. why can' nun, a woman of the parish be encouraged to come forward and talk about her situation, her family? >> no, she can, but not in a homilitical setting. it ties to the priesthood.
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not to say for a second that women can't articulate a lot of important things. i would say this, when you say the church in the vatican 2 vision, you mean the people of god. that means 99% of the church, the leity of the world. the whole thing is the priests and bishops sanctify the leity. that sank at this guys great catholic writers and television personalities. great catholic lawyers, et cetera, et cetera. women can and should fulfill all of those roles. talk about power in the church. that's power. priests are there to sanctify the ladies. >> i'm hearing surprising things that you believe. the holy orders is to deliver the homily, not just the sacrame sacrament. >> because it's tied to -- >> kathleen? >> i've heard beautiful reflections, i've given beautiful reflections on god.
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it's not called a homily as a vesper service. that is important to hear women's voices in that way. we need to talk about the role of women in church. he said that the very first summer. there needs to be a role. we need to think about this. i don't think he knows what he means by that. >> i think that's fair. what about altar service? when we were altar boys, we were altar boys. now there are altar servers. now some places don't want altar girls. where is that line drawn? >> they say women should be getting equal pay for equal work. he wrote his first encyclical, it was in gender neutral language. this is important.
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he appointed the first woman to run a pontifical university. yes, a lot more could be done to bring women into the leadership positions but don't involve sacraments aren't associated with that. there's a long way to go. everybody's walking in the right direction. >> do you accept the idea that the priesthood is by nature a male role? >> what i -- i think that ordination question, whether women can be ordained or not is not even the question. >> it's mine. what's your answer? >> this pope has talked about -- this pope has talked about clarity. >> hardball. >> he said ordination, that door is closed. he's warned about clerical privilege. what that means is that why is it always the ordained that have to exercise all the power and the decision -- and make all the decisions. >> were you surprised, bishop, at the quickness of his response in having women priests? he said no. he didn't say dialogue. >> he said, i'm a son of the
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priest. he felt he couldn't toy with that. he's not someone that toys with the churches basic doctrines. >> we're going to get to this because dialoguing is being encouraged here. we have to talk about how far we can go with the dialogue. kathleen cummings of notre dame, where are they playing? >> notre dame. >> the diet, the diet. >> yeah. >> bishop baron, thank you for joining us. he's going to stay together. take a look at this. that's a photo from inside the cathedral ba sill ba silly cuss. it's an old city. our coverage continues live from philly after this.
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ji right now you're looking at live pictures of philadelphia international airport. it's a huge airport of what do you call those things, hubs? that's right. pope francis is expected to arrive in the next ten minutes. he's expected to exit the plane to a musical tradition by shanahan high school. every time i speak here the music picks up timing. along with archbishop joseph chaput and members of the world meeting of families organizing committee. after leaving the airport the pope will travel via closed motorcade to celebrate a mass right behind mere here on ben franklin parkway at the cathedral bica of saints peter and paul. joining me from washington,
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d.c., is timothy casiky and george weigel, senior vatican analyst. george weigel, give us a sense of the doctrinal beliefs of the family, about the importance of the husband and wife's relationship with their children and then if you have a chance go get in the issue why we have a male priesthood and it's exclusive. gay marriage we have to talk about, too. >> chris, let's begin at the end of your question. there we are -- here we are in philadelphia. you're in philadelphia, which was the home to a remarkable family, the drexels, one of the richest families in the country, and one of the daughters of that family, kathryn drexel in her early 30s, founded a religious community of sisters, gave her entire inheritance, which in today's dollars was probably worth about 180 million bucks,
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to do what? to build schools for african-american and native american children throughout the country. she was following in the footsteps of the first cannonized saint elizabeth ann satins. here are two women whose impact on church and society was arguably greater than 90% of the bishops of their time. and why was that? because they were saints. because they understood that what this church is about is fostering sanctity, which put in secular terms, means human nobility. that means in the case of kathryn drexel, you go out to these kids that means you go out
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to the kids that mean nothing. african-american kids, more dramatically native american kids on reservations so i think that's one of the lessons from philadelphia today. pope francis is deeply concerned that the very idea of marriage and the family is being deconstructed in 21st century society. that if marriage in the family simply mean anything we want them to mean, something that as bishop baron said is built into us is getting lost. and when we really tug against the grain of what is built into us, we end up with a lot of unhappiness. and i think we've seen that in the united states, for example, with no fault divorce. this was supposed to be a compassionate idea. it's turned out to have created
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an enormous set of problems of whom the primary victims are children. so the pope is going to, i think, as he did perhaps a bit obliquely in washington and new york, talk about his concern that these fund amountfundament society, the family as what john paul ii called the first school of freedom, the place where the tyrants that all of us are when we're those beautiful little 2-year-olds learn how to be civil, tolerant, responsible adults, he's going to talk about his concern that we do everything possible to strengthen the institutions of marriage and the family and to lift up their beauty. this is a world that needs some beauty right now. and there's great beauty to be found in the love within
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families and between husbands and wives. >> well, george, i think back about the serious nature of the way you mentioned in my upbringing, our upbringing. when you had parents that were sacrificial in nature, i don't think my dad ever bought a coke on the way home from work. i don't think he ever spent a dime on his self. everything went to the family. everything went to our private education, piano lessons, braces for our teeth. everything was for us. that sense of -- you know, it's aspirational as a lot of immigrant families are like that. when they come from korea or anywhere. how do you rebuild that, that sense of everything for the kids? >> chris, i think one of the things we might remember here, you mentioned immigrant families, is that the catholic church has been the greatest assimilator of immigrants, making immigrants americans, if you will, helping immigrants,
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empowering immigrants to become fully participant in this great diverse and plural society than any other institution in the country. the church needs to continue to do that. i think the way to begin to rebuild that sense of the beauty of marriage, the beauty of family and family responsibility that you were describing so eloquently rings very true in my own experience is early. these things have to be preached. these things have to be taught in catholic schools. they have to be part of our marriage preparation programs in the church. the notion of self-sacrifice is not one that comes very easily in american culture today. and yet it's absolutely the foundation of making marriages work and making families work.
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i remember the great charleton heston asked how he could have stayed married in hollywood of all places for 50 years. and he said there are five important words you have to learn. i'm sorry, i was wrong. that's an -- that's a lesson that catholic schools need to be teaching, too. >> that's psychology. >> i'm sorry, i don't won't do generally. i know that pretty well. >> father, the other moral is if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. let me ask you about the role of catholic education because the jesuits historically taught men, i believe, in all the great colleges i went, holy cross, b.c., georgetown, fordham, all of the great schools you have, 28 schools you have, at least that's the number that i remember, then you start to teach women as well with as much excitement. was that because the s.a.t. average score was up or was that
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out of a philosophical belief? >> i think it's important to know that they didn't found the order to open schools, he wanted to train jesuits and invited exterrance in. the very first jesuit school was in to foreign jesuits. archbishop carroll, from baltimore, was the founder of georgetown university. >> father, hold on for one second. hold on with that thought. i want to hear the whole history. let's just acknowledge that the plane has landed. the pope, pope francis has landed now at philadelphia international airport for the third leg of his tour of the united states. in fact, the leg which basically everything else is built upon in washington and new york. and this time on this tour took second and third place. he came here for the national conference on the family. he's going to be talking about that here before it could be 2 million people here right here behind me. this is the biggie for him.
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and why he came. and we're all hoping that this -- well, we all hope the trip ends with a crescendo of significance that lasts more than just a few days. let me go back to father kensicky. tell us about that, the jesuit mission. this pope is a jesuit. >> yes, he is. and as we -- as we may remember, we've not had a pope from a religious order since the mid 19th century. i believe it was gregory 16th. we're not accustomed to a pope coming from a religious order. we know that he served as a jesuit novice master, jesuit provincial. he knows the inner workings of the jesuit order and even as archbishop of buenos aires came as a jesuit, he served his people with a certain anything nair ri deal as well as a love of the poor. it's important to note that jesuits are a missionary order. i believe that's why when we
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hear pope francis talk about the peripheries or, you know, the church, the field hospital, these would be characteristic images of someone who had a missionary zeal for the church. all things being equal, he was also archbishop and understands the care that an archbishop would have for a diocese like his diocese. he still identifies himself as a jesuit on july 31st, 2013, the peace of saint ignatius. he went to the bishop's home and in his homily said we jesuits, our challenges, et cetera, so he still identifies himself as a jesuit for he is. and a beautiful thing he does for our religious order is he really showcases the charism of saint ig nation sh-- ignatius.
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>> take a couple of minutes because i'm so overwhelmed by the courage of the jesuits when they really pioneered america and they were the great missionary zel loalotzealots. there's a great film called "black robe" about the jesuits up in canada and the horrific tortures they suffered. jacques cartiere, was he a jesuit? the stories are so powerful? saint isaac jobst. what we call the canadian ma nartyrs. they came to a new friend with the goal of bringing the gospel to the native people and they were fearless and courageous and they gave their very lives to the states trusting that old adage that the blood of the
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martyrs is the seed of the church. and they're incredible, incredible models of the faith and a tremendous witness to the groups of the faith, particularly in north america. so, again, that courageous missionary zeal is in the best traditions of the jesuit order. >> we're watching right now as the ladder's put up now. the landing platform for the pope's plane. we're going to get all the dignitaries welcoming him here in philadelphia. i want to bring in my friend, michael steel. michael, you and i were in rome for the -- he's not there now? well, he will be. we'll talk about the elevation of the cardinal as well as the role of the early church. let me go back to bishop baron and talk about the philosophy of our church. people watching now, i figure
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50-50 catholic/non-catholic. not a bad estimate. tell about the philosophy we have. the pope wants to extraditepedi nullments because it's hurt second marriages, not secretary marriages but the marriage that will be recognized by the church. at the same time we're talking about the problem of no fault divorce. one speeds it up, one slows it down. or they both speed up. i was wondering about the second marriage predicament because one of the people i try to really empathize with are people who made a mistake. it may not have been -- it may have been marrying a drunk, to be blunt, marrying someone who's gay. nothing wrong with being gay if god made you that way, but the idea of getting into a marriage situation is pretty frightening, pretty frightening situation. then you have beaters, people that are just hostile to their wives, and the woman gets out of that marriage as fast as she can. if she gets out alive, she's
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lucky. then she finds the right fella and she wants that recognized. i think that's something very apathetic on the part of the pope to be thinking about that. there are women who are listening to me who are in very happy second marriages. they'd like it to be recognized. >> complicated question. the church has heard for a long time people's concern about the annulment process taking so long. the pope does want to expedite that. at the same time, he wants to hang on to this idea of the insolubility of marriage which is grounded in the word of jesus itself and grounded in the nature of things. probably difficult to find that proper balance. you don't want to emphasize mercy so strongly that you compromise principle. >> but we know, bishop, your excellency, we know that people with influence have been able to get a nnnulmentannulments. >> what do you think about letting people get out of a
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first marriage? >> the claim of the church is when you make a -- when you get an annulment declared, that there was never a marriage in the first place, a sacramental first marriage. >> let's take a look. i love that argument by the way. we'll get back to that. here he is. the pope's let's watch because they'll be some interesting conversations. he's going to be greeted by the archbishop of philadelphia. also the recently elected mayor and his wife. among the deputies is the comcast head of federal relations dave cohen. he's also in the first row, i'll give him that.
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the cardinals. the archbishop. the two bodyguards. we've watched these two guys. they're very elegant, wait they move people aside, very firmly, but with great style i think. no one's complained yet. where do they find these kids? the cute kids. there's just thousands of them they've found for this arrival. everywhere the pope go, there's another group of these darling kids. all with -- just looking immaculately turned out and their parents in this case. look at them hugging the pope. this is something to remember. you don't forget that and shouldn't. >> my wife shook hands with the pope at the catholic charities in washington. just something.
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i grabbed her hand for a little third degree relic experience from that. governor tom wolf. brand-new governor of pennsylvania. tom wolf. there's michael nutter, our mayor. lisa's right behind hill, the first lady of philadelphia, tall woman there, smile like mad. as i said, there's dave cohen, the inevitable dave cohen of cop cast is there. let's see. this is a great reward for people who have helped the church in its dealings with the world. of course it's a great honor to be put in that line. as it was in new york. michael bloomberg, friend of the church over the years.
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and the man from home depot. let's go to anne thompson. she hasn't gotten off the plane yet. i think she can talk to us. >> hi, chris, i'm actually on the tarmac, watching the pope go through the proceeding line. >> you're ahead of us. >> incongruous thing is there's a band here playing "don't stop believing" by journey to welcome the pope. it was a short flight to philadelphia. about i think we were up in the air for about 20 minutes. the pope did not come back to talk to journalists. but he has got a full day ahead of him. he's got a mass he will say at 10:30. he's going to meet with seminarians. and then he has the speech at independence hall at 4:30. and then a star-studded festival of families event that will close this evening. so he's got a busy day ahead of him, chris. >> you know, dan, you've been
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following this, aren't you impressed, maybe i'm depressed, by the amount of events he's had to cover in these three city visits. it's like they packed in one thing after another. he did get -- he does get a siesta in. but my gosh, he's just been -- look at hi, he's just alive and present in every meeting with someone. he hasn't mailed it in once. >> absolutely. and let me tell you, the less important they are, the more alive he is. i think that's really the great thing about francis. is that he loves to hear people's stories. he -- we were talking among ourselves in the press section over here. i mean, one of the things that's been kind of discouraging is the security is so tight and so -- i mean, almost -- you know you have to keep hip safe, but all i can think of yesterday at ground zero you know, you have 1,000 family members there, they're
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behind one barrier. and then there's another barrier, you know, ten yards away. and all they want is a blessing. and at one point, francis seemed to want to walk over to see them but there was no way he could get to them because of the security. and, you know, look, i'm no expert, and clearly keeping him safe is first and foremost. there's also that thing that you missed the best part -- best part of him, what he likes to do most of all is to greet people and talk to them and hear their story and that's, you know, that's sort of been -- that's been truncated by the strong security presence here in the u.s. >> well, anne, isn't that the world we live in, in covering these politicians in this country. we know that the extraordinary step -- we used to be able to drive by the white house on pennsylvania avenue. if you didn't like the president, you could blow the
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horn from the resign. totally open country. used to be able to go to capitol hill and just walk through the gates and walk around and see your congress person without any problem. now it's metal key detectors and passwords. here he is in his fiat. as i said the other day in my ludicrous reference to fiat, but he really is sending a signal by that little car and that hand is going to be the most recognizable hand in the world. there he is, he's talking. now he's getting out. this wasn't planned. whoa. these kids, what they're experiencing. and the mom. look at her.
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the kid has problems, you can see, and the mother is just -- what power this man has to make people feel good. you know, there's so many big shots to be blunt. because they have done good work for the church. but it's his impulse, as somebody said, as anne said a moment ago, anne, it is your thought that he's reaching out physically. he wants to touch people. the other thing is i once was an altar boy at a mental institution in philadelphia. we called it byberry. the priest says, i don't mind these people, except when they touch me. that turned me off a little bit. but i must say, this pope is the
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most palpably touchable. no one would have ever done this with pope benedict. it would have been unimaginable. anne, are you there? >> yeah, no, and that's very true. what i think is striking about francis is people feel that they could actually talk to him, you know. sit down and have a cup of coffee with him or a latte or a beer or a glass of wine. if they really feel a connection with him. and part of that is not only did they reach out to him, but he reaches back to them. he doesn't, you know, he doesn't cringe when someone touches him. he doesn't rush for hand sanitizer. >> well said. >> he enjoys it. >> well said. he's meeting people that could be from -- there he is, gesturing like mad in the car. i wonder if he's complaining about the security. i just saw him with a real hand gesture there. it was great. so he's coming here to --
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>> he knows security is necessary. but it isn't -- i think it's fair to say, it isn't something he enjoys, let's put it that way. if it gets between him and the people. because that's his -- he isn't here just to be seen. he's here to listen. he's here to dialogue, as he says, encounter people. if the security gets between him and the people, then he can't -- either he can't talk to them, he can't meet them. and that's the reason why he's come to this country. >> boy, anne and everybody on this day, i would love to debrief the pontiff on his trip to america. i would love to sit with him and just -- what surprised him about our country what impressed him. he met a lot of people of different backgrounds and situations. he met a lot. anyway, the pope's now en route to the cathedral right behind me on the ben franklin parkway for this morning's mass at 10:30.
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the challenge of keeping the holy father safe here in philadelphia, which is a big conversation among the media. our guest, from the new york fbi office. how far is too far in protecting a public official? is there too far? or in the security business, you can't overdo it? >> you just can't overdo it, chris. it's such a -- such a hard thing for everybody involved. i know that both in washington, d.c. and in new york, there's been a collective sigh of relief. but right now, the individuals providing security in philadelphia are wound tighter than a banjo string. when the pope, the holy father, gets out of that car and goes to the fence line, it gives them two beats short of a coronary. it happens, you know, we can all think of lynette squeaky from back in 1975. so this is what scares
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everybody. i think this is what we have to remember. there's two things that have occurred here. number one, all the security shows. it's dramatic. the security that shows right now. but what doesn't show is also more dramatic. on the other side of the fence line, with the people that are looking for the pope, are security services people looking for all of the triggers that they know could exist if somebody was going to do something harmful to the holy father. >> do you know if there have been threats? >> yes, as a matter of fact, if we stop and think about the radical islamist extremists have targeted the pope as one of the individuals whom they want to kill. of course, the united states is the ultimate target for radical islamic extremisextremists. so with those two, you now have is the pope, who's a target, in a country that's the target. it is a challenge for the security people. but they're so good.
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the secret service. it's their bailiwick. and their interaction with local police departments, federal agencies and, in this case, the military. everybody has to be very, very careful. but with the holy father the way he is and the way he wants to be with people, you have to let him do that. so you have to be absolutely more vigilant than you've been in your life. >> they warned us ahead of time, don't try to be a big shot and big face and say, everybody knows me. try that here, it gets you nowhere. we got up at 5:00 this morning. a lot of the crew guys up at 3:00 just to get on the buses that took you here. you could not walk down the parkway. i've never seen anything like it. let me go to father canseci. the pope sort of broke in the schedule. something in him said i'm going to do something different here. father, you narrate this, if you
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don't mind. >> well, the scene i see is obviously the holy father in his fiat. although there was a very touching scene where he went over to a child and touched the child. you could see the clear emotion on the mother's face. i see it coming right now. and he believes in the power of touch. we see in the scripture how people touching jesus' garment brought great consolation. that's a dynamic. to bring consolation to people. it doesn't necessarily imply that a miracle will come or healing or long life will come. it's a consolation. it's being in a right relationship with god. feeling the grace, the love, the mercy, the tenderness of god. i think we always have to remember that the word pontiff is a bridge.
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and so in a way for that family, feeling the touch of the holy father is as close as they'll come to christ this day. so it brings tears to them. it brings tears to our own eyes. i had tears the first time i saw it. because i can see -- >> look at this. >> the consolation. >> the kid looks quadriplegic. he's in the wheelchair. he probably is paralyzed. and the mother is just -- michael steele, you were almost a priest. i don't know if you would have made it this far. but -- just kidding. but you must wonder about the power of the priesthood and being able to just bring that kind of joy to people. and at least for a while, happiness. and may be more than that. >> it is the continuation of the walk of jesus. that the priest, the priesthood represents even in the modern era. you know, i tell people all the
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time who joke about -- who have concern about, oh, we don't have enough priests and the numbers are dropping. i remind then, christ started with 12. so when we get to 11 priests left in the world, then let's panic. so the reality of it is this pope, as many of his successors, has focused on the priesthood and the very important role they play. which is why his comments in washington, when he met with his brother priest, was, remember your call to service. remember your responsibility to the people. do not get caught up in the things of this world. behave yourselves. and i thought that was a very powerful message and a reminder of the simplicity, yet the elegance and importance of the call that christ has given all of them. >> i'll talk about the early church. i was in rome. not the time with you but i had a wonderful tour of the city by an archaeologist, a young
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seminarian. we went down, under the ground in st. peter's. right near this was the circus of the area where peter was crucified, by his call, upside down, so he would be even more disrespected than jesus in his death. then you go three or four levels down and you find what might be his grave, his remains. seminarians said to us, kathleen and i, you know, this is the church i believe in. without all the trappings. everything is beautiful. we love the ritual, it's part of our reinforcement all the time. but the magic of the church is the thinking about the simplicity of someone like the pope and the way he's behaving with the people who have problems. >> and that is it right there. in a nutshell. it is not about the trappings. it is not about the majesty. it is about the simplicity. it is about the sacrifice. that peter and the other apostles dedicated themselves to
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and were committed to. remember, you're talking about men at that time who were largely uneducated. they were blue collar. they were fishermen. they were called from that service to a broader bigger service. he made them fishers of men and women and that tradition continues in the church today. as father noted earlier, i mean, this is the call, this is the responsibility. when the pope gets out of the trappings of this time, the car, for example, and he walks other to that mother and he embraces them. that's the church. that is the church alive. that is the church relevant. and that's the call that he has for all of us, whether you're a priest or layman, to be alive and relevant to the people in the community. >> bishop, join us in here in terms of the philosophy. it's about the meek, it's about the poor.
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this isn't a partisan assessment, it was the sermon on the mount. >> yeah, i get that. it's the simplicity and the pageantry. look at the pope last night at madison square garden. he happily engages in the liturgy. the poetry comes juxtaposing the two. it is, yes, this simple outreach, the love of the poor. it's the splen door and pageantry of the liturgy. there was a kind of bipolar extremism about it, we're this and that, and not a combination of the two. but this all the way and that all the way. >> testerson says christianity
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has not failed but hasn't tried. >> right, it's not been found and wanting, it's never been tried. >> now at the cathedral. give us a sense of that setting as the pope's about to arrive. >> we're waiting here in front of the basilica of course, as he's about to arrive here in probably half an hour or so. there's a few hundred people right behind the camera there. you can see, are getting more and more excited. they know he's coming because probably they're following his path through social media. now, here in front of the ba sill basilica of st. peter and paul, there's the bishop, in the purple stripe there, is planned the 1979 visit by john paul ii when he was here, and of course he gets the front row. now the nun that he's having a laugh with him is the sister --
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sister of the poor. this is an order of cloistered nuns that made the communion wafers. now the woman sitting down, the nun sitting down with the crane is sister, 1 of 15 children, teaching catholic education. the one family is with a newborn, that's little luke over there, and another family there, just right behind him, on the steps, has been married for 50 years. of course the family is the central theme of this visit to philadelphia. he's here of course mainly because of the world meeting of families. i was about to be -- the light there. another miracle by pope francis. give it 20 minutes. he's going to get here. the place is going to go wild. >> let's bring in sister simone campbell, executive director of the catholic organization
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network. author of "a nun on the bus." sister simone, we've talked a lot about dorothy day. i'm talked perhaps incessantly about the role of women in the church and the need for a greater role if not direct equality. what's your thinking about that? >> oh, i think we have to make progress on that. pope francis is making incremental progress. as he speaks about the family, i think he's going to acknowledge that women are equal with men in that relationship. and i think we are moving forward towards a greater inclusion of women within the church. i was really surprised at my own reaction when pope spoke to the -- at st. matthew's cathedral in d.c. to the bishops. it took my breath away to see this slew of men and not a woman in sight. i think part of the challenge is to make sure we include all of humanity both within our church and within our leadership. it's coming. it's eventual. i know my own freedom as a member of a religious community
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to take the gospel to where it wouldn't be otherwise. so that's the joy of my life. i do think leadership within the church would -- by women would be helpful. >> what do you think, do you think it might actually go the way of the liberal episcopalian church on all these issues? you think the catholic church would ever go that way? >> it's a possibility. the holy spirit is alive and well and i say making mischief within all of us. i think we're more likely to see, at least within my lifetime, more leadership at the diocesan levels. and in specific offices. not ordination. but i think really working towards the affirmation of women's leadership. we have been the key movers in the church. we're the workers in the church. so i think it's about time our leadership got acknowledged. >> let me go to george wiegle. thank you for that pronunciation help on the archbishop. jogues. let me ask you about the role of
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liberalization versus conservativism. if you look at successful churches, evangelical churches. then the main-line protestant churches, episcopalian, presbyteri presbyterian. those main-line churches become very liberal about the gay orientation, they're open to that more than the catholic church has done. they're not doing so well in terms of numbers and people going to church. the evangelical church, maybe because they're more lively, if you will. what's the strength of liberalization and conservatism in terms of encouraging the size and success of your flock? >> let's begin with the united states, chris. i think it's fair to say that the liveliest parts of the church in the united states, the growing parts of the church in the united states, whether we're talking about parishes, diocese, seminaries, religious orders of
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women or men, campus ministries, youth associations. are precisely those who have embraced what john paul ii called the new evangelization. what i sometimes call "all in" catholicism. meaning doctrine, great seriousness, liturgy, service to the poor, missionary impulse. that's where the church is growing here. on a broader cultural or civilizational stage, it does seem to me that there is a kind of iron law built into the encounter between christian communities and the modern world. this has been unfolding for the better part of 300 years. christian communities that maintain and, indeed, cherish, their doctrinal and moral boundaries cannot only survive
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secular modernity, they can thrive in it and help convert it. whereas christian communities as you indicated, that tend to fudge the boundaries to the point where you're not clear where the boundaries are, they don't do so well. >> let's take a look. that's an interesting point. let's go now to -- here we are, the cathedral basilica. of st. peter's paul. which i grew up with. that's the vehicle of choice of the pontiff. makes a lot of sense. why don't you give us the arrival information and cover it as a news man, go head. >> yes, the motorcade is just passing by. you can see there. we're trying to spot the little fiat. it's difficult. it's kind of hidden. oh, there you go. >> there it is. >> now he's just arrived. his little fiat. the 500-l. the plate of course suv. number one is the plate of the
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pope. there he companies out. we see him appearing in a second. and that's pope francis on his first philadelphia appointment. and he's greeted by former governor tom corbett. and his wife. will then meet with a small delegation that i have introduced to you a bit earlier on. it is made with families and nuns and the bishop that organized the visit of the predecessor john paul ii here in 1979. the shot there with the governor. you see he's the head of the -- the head of security is making sure everything is okay. everybody's laughing and smiling. so there you go. it is a big wave to the crowd behind. a few hundred people. they've been waiting here since
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about 5:00 this morning when we got here at 5:00. they were already here. so i don't know how long it has been but it's been a long time. and he enters the basilica, chris.
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anyone who's ever had the honor and duty to perform political advance must be impressied by this. kathleen, this has been the most beautifully choreographed. because either picture, as i said the other day, if we still had "life" magazine, everything is set up for the perfect picture. here there in philadelphia, which is a gritty city, it's a blue collar city, it's like a woody allen movie. they found all the beautiful spots and they're going to show them. certainly the benjamin franklin parkway. right at the end of the parkway. which begins with the city hall and the cathedral here. >> it's amazing to think here he is in philadelphia. this is -- >> you'll never come again
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probably. >> well, it's not likely. you know, one of the other main things he did hear was canonize a new saint. philadelphia's the city that has two saints. george brought up catherine directi drexel who worshiped at this cathedral and john newman who helped build the cathedral. there are more u.s. women saints then men saints. on that issue at least, women have a majority. we talked about the school system. when i was growing up, a quarter million children went to catholic school. it was enormous. >> the reason is because philadelphia had so many subs y subsidied. there were so many sisters that were able to devote their entire lives. pope francis said there should be equal pay for equal work. >> there was no pay. >> teei inteaching brothers got
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paid on average. received a stipend. often two or three times more than what sisters got. sisters outnumbered teaching brothers. >> the christian brothers, yes, i had them. as my st. agnes, who was quite the intellectual, she said, run why the sisters of st. joseph, she said the reason it works is because of communism. you turn over your social security check every month and they pool them. >> a high school student wrote an essay in the early 20th century that described the work of sisters as the wageless work of paradise. isn't that a great phrase? working for a greater good. it did mean they often lived in poverty. they lived their vow poverty really authentically. it was great to hear pope francis recognize and thank american sisters for all they've done. >> and the schools existed on that surplus value of the labor. >> exactly. >> it was never the way we talk about women in the church, as if it's a new thing.
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yet we grew up with the sisters being the bosses. they ran the schools. >> the proto feminists were the sisters in the early century who ran a lot of the institutions, inspired a lot of women to those points of leadership. i was just made auxiliary bishop in l.a. i was given a tour of the chancery office. i think 75% of the people i met were women. people who are in major leadership roles in l.a. are women. so it's -- i think there's a hyper focus on the priesthood as the point leadership. as i say, it's the lady in the world above all. even within the church, there's been a real development there, where women are more involved in positions of major leadership. >> as pope francis is saying, we have to talk about how to make women more visible. i think we have to ask questions. when is it -- when are women who are providing, doing the work are they expected to volunteer their time or are they getting
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the recognition for that, getting compensation? i think those are questions worth asking. questions separate from the ordination question but are important to ask. >> when you look at this in an ethics sense, most people here are white, overwhelmingly, caucasian. irish, italian, german, polish, whatever. and yet -- obviously african-americans, michael steele of course. and i think the more the big cities change neighborhoods to become more african-americans, the old churches have fallen away. they've become empty. except for immigrants coming in. and they've lost that sort of gritty going my way sort of tradition of the big city church. how is the diocese going to deal with that, bishop? >> it's shifting. from the northeast to the southwest. where i'm a bishop now. my experience in l.a., every place you go, jammed full of people. maybe the way it was in philly and new york, boston, many years ago. the center of gravity is shifting. the church is making an adjustment at a lot of levels.
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it's become much more brown church, much more hispanic church. the canonization of serro is one example. there is a great story, long before the 13 colonies here, there's this tremendously rich catholic spanish presence from florida to california. i think all of that is our thinking at the moment, as our center of gravity shifts. >> let's bring in the vice president of mission and ministry at georgetown university. vice president for those roles at georgetown. one of the great universities of the country. father oo'brien, thank you for joining us. we talked about the jesuit pope we have here. education being a big part of it. tell us about why you became a jesuit. i want to hear the basic story here. >> i was a corporate lawyer before becoming a jesuit. so i think the reason i became a jesuit was because the jesuits i met back in college at
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georgetown. and they taught me about a faith that is alive in deeds of justice. a faith that is rooted in a down to earth spirituality that helps us find god in all things. i faith that's always trying to reach out to others. to always to the peripheries and margins. a faith that inspires me to be a con tunn contemplative man of prayer in action. when i think about this pope, i think about so many people who will look at him. men and women. who will imagine what can i be as a person. not just as a catholic. this pope is reaching out to a lot of different people. i think theme look at his style, his humility, his reaching out to people on the margins like the beautiful family we saw in philadelphia at the airport, and i think people can look at this pope and say, you know, i can live a little more humbly. i can live a little more kindly.
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i can live a little more selflessly. and i think having models for our lives are very important. jesuits were for me. that's how i live my life now. this pope frankly is making me a much better person and priest. >> let's go right now to the father. once at the university of scranton. now the great fordham university. vince lombardi, all the greats, you represent one of the great colleges in the country. what does it all mean to you, having a jesuit pope? >> well, as you might imagine, it's a great thrill for us. as he indicated, it's a bit of a challenge as well. because he lives the life of a jesu jesuit. such clarity, such fervor. he challenges all jesuits to seek the greater glory of god in all that we do even more. but i would be lying if i didn't
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say we're also immensely proud of him. the way he is serving the church and challenging us all within the church to be men and women in the church who are attentive to the needs of the poor and very much interested in a dialogue with the world we seek to serve. >> tell us about the -- >> say hello by the way. >> thank you so much. i know them all. let me ask you about the balance here. when i saw the people that got to meet the pontiff in new york, the michael bloombergs, the people with money and power. and i saw the money people got to -- who have been contributing to the church over the years got to meet the pope. also the poor people up in harlem and also, you know, at the ronald mcdonald house. talk about how this has been choreographed. because he's able to meet the people that need him.
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and the people that the church needs. the church needs to get money in the bank to do what it does. interesting to watch that weaving together over the last couple of days. >> everyone in new york has remarked on that. he did reach out to those who have been very good to the archdiocese of new york and other catholic charities over the years. but he was also very, very clear from the start that he wanted to be present too, he wanted to interact with and embrace those on the margins of society. we saw him up in harlem at one of our schools up there. it was a great, great encounter that he has. he learned a lot from a young girl who taught him how to be more up to date on interactive technology. and then he was down at ground zero as well. i will say one of the most remarkable moments in a remarkable vast tour, visit to new york, was at the service in the cathedral where the coming
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together that you mentioned was very, very evident. in the front pews were all those who have been very good to the church. and those who have helped the archdiocese restore st. patrick's cathedral. but the rest of the church was filled with the church. and during the service, as you'll recall, when he was speaking, there were thunderous ovations when he acknowledged the great work of religious women in the united states. challenged us by saying could we imagine the church without them, without all they've done. i turned around, i was behind a pillar, which made me very happy. i turned around and looked at all the nuns behind me. they were in tears because of the acknowledgement he made. i think he was pointing out, they have been the presence of the church in the world, in the united states, for centuries. it's been a very interesting and well choreographed visit.
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last night at the garden the whole city responded. with great affection to him. he ended, as he always does, by asking everyone. he told the students in harlem, your homework is to pray for me. he told us last night in the garden we had to remember to pray for him. he has a great touch, a great pastoral touch. >> i've studied public personalities. i've watched them. i enjoy them. i mean this with no disregard for your cardinal in new york. i thought that was a new york performance by the cardinal in new york. only in new york would a guy call out, milk the crowd for applause for the pope of the world. it was just a piece of work, new york work. let me ask you about the different ethnic groups and how you work together. every time i go to the dinner, i'm lucky to get there, thanks to the cardinal. there's so many jewish guys.
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big money people. bloomberg, well known. i think of the inter -- how does that work in new york where the cardinal of new york becomes kind of a sicivic leader in new york? >> it goes back to almost when we had our first john bishop in the 19th century. a figure, i would say, of enormous profile. he was not always loved but he was someone everyone had to contend with. he left a role every one of his successors has played in the city, some more successfully than others. i think for instance cardinal spellman was a power broker. everyone knew that. cardinal hayes was a quiet man. cardinal o'connor was -- he was heroic in his size and heroic in the profile. one of the things each
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archbishop of new york has understood, because of the way they play the role in the church, they have to have a relationship with the mayor and city council and they work together. i think that's part of what makes part of cardinal dolan so successful. he has worked together with the mayors that have been in office since he's been in office. and, for instance, during our very, very hard summer last summer, after the eric garner case, it was not surprising to any of us that the mayor turned to the cardinal to be the person who would be an ambassador for peace not only on staten island but throughout the city. it was a role the cardinal stepped into with great ease because as you know he's an outsized character himself and people have learned to trust him and to turn to him. so it's just a role that john hughes i guess forged and now we have cardinal dolan playing it. by the way, last night, i thought dolan was at his best. but the people were not going to
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let him speak for them. he started the things. and the people went bananas. that's a new york term meaning they become very enthusiastic. i thought that said volumes about the way the pope interacted directly with them. it was a great evening. >> you have a beautiful campus. i loved watching chuck schumer, who's jewish, give that wonderful speech up there, the time i gave the graduation commencement. we're here in philadelphia, my city, which began all this thing called america. it's where we had the declaration of independence written and signed by the delegates at the time. let's watch the mass however. we're in a religious moment here now.
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit. brothers and sisters, let us acknowledge our sins. and that we celebrate saint
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ignatius. i confess. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life. amen.
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♪ >> let us pray.
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o, lord, father, only begotten son, bless the virgin mary, his mother, and we pray that this church might be more fit for the day-by-day and the holiness of our children and all of the families. for our lord jesus christ, your
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son, whose life in vain with you in the unity of the holy spirit, one lord, forever and ever. amen. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: -- god and he responded. i heard your steps in the garden and i'm fearful because i'm naked and i hid. then god told him, and who told you that you were naked?
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did by any chance you eat from the tree i told you you would be prohibited to eat from? adam responded, the woman you gave me as a partner offered me a fruit from that tree. and i ate it. god told woman, why have you done that? the woman responded, the serpent lied to me and i ate. so god told the serpent, why have you done this? you being condemned among all the animals and among all the savage beasts. you will eat dirt for the rest of your life. i will create -- >> translator: between your offspring and learns. he will strike at your head
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while you strike at his heel. the man called his wife eve. because she became the mother of all the living. ♪
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♪ you are the highest one of us our race ♪ ♪ you are the highest one of us our race ♪ ♪ blessed are you ♪ daughter by the most high god ♪ ♪ above all the women on earth ♪ and blessed be the lord god ♪ the creator of heaven and earth ♪ ♪ and blessed be the lord god
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♪ the creator of heaven and earth ♪ ♪ your deed of hope will never be forgotten ♪ ♪ by those who heard of the might of god ♪ ♪ your deed of hope will never be forgotten ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ hallelujah ♪ hallelujah ♪ hallelujah ♪ hallelujah ♪ hallelujah ♪ blessed be the holy virgin mary ♪ ♪ deserving of our praise ♪ from your heart of song of justice ♪ ♪ christ with us ♪ hallelujah
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hallelujah ♪ hallelujah
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♪ >> the lord be with you. a reading from the holy gospel according to john.
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>> standing on the cross of jes jesus. and mary of mag dala. when he saw his mother, he said, woman, be hold your son. then he said to the disciple, behold your mother. and from that hour, the disciple took her into his home. ♪ ♪
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[ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: this morning i learned something about the history of this beautiful cathedral, the story behind its high walls and windows. i would like to think though that the history of the church
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in this city and state is really a story not about building wa walls, but about breaking them down. it is a story about generation after generation of committed catholics going out to the peripheries and building communities of worship, education, charity, and service to the larger society. >> translator: this morning, i learned something about the history of this beautiful cathedral, the story behind its high walls and windows. i would like to think, though, that the history of the church
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in this city and state is really the story not about building walls but about breaking them down. a story about generation after generation of committed catholics going out to the peripheries and building communities of worship, education, charity and service to the larger society. that story is seen in the many shrines which dot this city and the many parish churches whose towers and steeples speak of god's presence in the midst of our communities. it is seen in the efforts of all those dedicated priests, religious and for over two
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centuries have ministered to the needs of the poor, the immigr t immigrant, the sick and those in prison. and it is seen in the hundreds of schools where religious brothers and sisters train children to read and write and to love god and neighbor and to contribute as good citizens to the life of american society. all of this is a great legacy which you have received. and which you have been called to enrich and pass on. that story is seen in the many
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shrines which dot this city. who speak of god's presence in the midst of our communities. it is seen in the efforts of all those dedicated priests, religious and a littleleity, wh over two centuries have ministered to the needs of the poor, the immigrants, the sick, and those in prison. it is seen in the hundreds of schools where religious brothers and sisters train children to read and write, to love god and neighbor, and to contribute as good citizens to the life of american society. all of this is a great legacy which you have received and which you have been called to enrich and pass on. >> translator: most of you know the story of st. catherine drexel, one of the great saints
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raised up by this local church. when she spoke to pope leo xiii of the need for missions, the pope, a very wise pope, asked her pointedly, what about you? what are you going to do? this words changed catherine's life because they reminded her that in the end every christian man and woman by virtue of baptism has received a mission. each one of us has to respond as best we can to the lord's call to build up his body, the
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church. >> most of you know the story of st. catherine drexel, one of the great saints raised up by this local church. when she spoke to pope leo xiii of the need of the missions, the pope, he was a very wise pope, asked her pointedly, what about you, what are you going to do? those words changed catherine's life. because they reminded her that in the end, every christian man and woman by virtue of baptism has received a mission. each one of us has to respond as best we can to the lord's call to build up his body the church. >> translator: what about you? i would like to dwell on two
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aspects of these words in the context of our particular mission to transmit the joy of the gospel and to build up the church. whether as priests, deacons, members, men and women, of institutes of consecrated life. >> translator: i would like to dwell on two aspects of these words on the context of our particular mission to transmit the joy of the gospel and to build up the church. whether it is priests, deacons or men and women members of institutes of consecrated life. >> translator: first, those words what about you were
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addressed to a young person. a young woman with high ideals. and they changed her life. and to realize she was being called to do her part. how many young people in our parishes and schools have the same ideals, generosity of spirit and love for christ and the church. i ask you do we challenge them? do we make space for them and help them to do their part? do we find ways of sharing their
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enthusiasm and gifts in our communities, mercy and concern for others? do we share our own joy and enthusiasm in serving the lord? >> first, those words, "what about you?" were addressed to a young person, a woman with high ideals and they changed her life. they made her think of the immense work that had to be done and to realize that she was being called to do her part. how many young people in our parishes and schools have the same high ideals, generosity of spirit and love for christ and the church? i ask them, do we challenge them, do we make space for them and help them to do their part, to find ways of sharing their enthusiasm and gifts with our
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communities above all in works of mercy and concern for others. do we share our own joy and enthusiasm in serving the lord? >> one of the great challenges facing the church in this generation is to foster in all the faithful a sense of personal responsibility for the church's mission and to enable them to fulfill that responsibility as missionary disciples. as 11 of the gospel in our world. this will require creative in adapting to changed situations. carrying forward the legacy of
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the past. not primarily by maintaining our structures and institutions which have served us well, but above all by being open to the possibilities which the spirit opens up to us and communicating the joy of the gospel daily and in every season of our life. >> one of the great challenges is to fosster all the faithful sense of responsibility in the church's mission and to enable them to fulfill that responsibility as missionary disciples as 11 of the gospel in our world. this will require creativity in adapting to changed situations. carrying forward the legacy of the past. not primarily by maintaining our structures and institutions
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which have served us well. but above all by being open to the possibilities which the spirit opens to us and communicating the joy of the gospel daily and in every season of our life. what about you? it is significant that those words of the elderly pope were also addressed to a lay woman. we know the future of the church in a rapidly changing society will call -- and even now calls for a much more active engagement on the part of the laity. the church in the united states has always devoted immense effort to the work of catachasis
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and education. our goal today is to build on those and foster a sense of collaboration and shared responsibility in planning for the future of our parishes and institutions. this does not mean relinquishing the spiritual authority with which we have been entrusted. rather, it means discerning and employing wisely the many gifts which the spirit pours out upon the church. in a particular way, it means valuing the immembers contribution which women, lay and religious, have made and
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continue to make to the life of our communities. >> what about you? it is significant these words of the elderly pope were also addressed to a lay woman. we know the future of the church in a rapidly changing society will call and even now calls for a much more active engagement on the part of the laity. the church in the united states has always devoted immense effort to the work of education. our job today is to build on those and foster a sense of collaboration and shared responsibility in planning for the future of our parishes and institutions. this does not mean relinquishing the spiritual authority with which we have been entrusted.
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rather, it means discerning and employing wisely the many gifts which the spirit pours out upon the church. in a particular way, it means valuing the immense contribution which women, lay and religious have made and continue to make to the life of our communities. >> translator: dear brothers and sisters, i thank you for the way in which each of you has answers jesus' question and which inspired your own vocation. what about you? i encourage you to be renewed in the joy of that first encounter with jesus. and to draw from that joy
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renewed fidelity and strength. i look forward to being with you in these days. and i ask you to bring my affectionate greetings to those who could not be with us. especially the many elderly priests and religious who join us in spirit. >> which inspired your own vocation. what about you? i encourage you to draw from that joy renewed fidelity and strength. i look forward to being with you in these days. i ask you to bring my affectionate greetings to those
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who could not be with us, especially the many elderly priests and religious who join us in spirit. >> during these days of the world meeting of families, i would ask you in a particular way to reflect on our ministry to families, to couples preparing for marriage. and to our young people. i know how much is being done in your local churches to respond to the needs of families and to support them in their journey of faith. i ask you to pray fervently for them. and to pray for the deliberations of the forthcoming
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centered on the family. >> during these days of the world meeting of families, i would ask you in a particular way to reflect on our ministry to families, to couples preparing for marriage, and to our young people. i know how much has been done in your local churches to reto the needs families and to support them in their journey of faith. i ask you to pray fervently for them and for the deliberations of the forthcoming centered on the family. now with gratitude for all we have received and with confident assurance in all our needs, let us turn to mary our blessed mother. with a mother's love, may she intercede for the growth of the church in america, in prophetic witness to the power of her
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son's cross to bring joy, hope and strength into our world. i pray for each of you. and i ask you please to pray for me. >> now with gratitude, let us turn to mary our blessed mother. may she intercede for the growth of the church in america in prophetic witness to the power of her son's cross to bring joy, hope and strength into our world. i pray for each of you. and i ask you please to pray for me.
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[ applause ]
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>> my brothers and sisters. let us ask the love iing intercession.
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>> we're at the site of tomorrow's big meeting for the conference of families at the other end of benjamin franklin parkway from the cathedral. we have with us a notre dame history professor to talk about the homily and the role of mother katharane drexel. >> we have heard some inspiring words from pope francis other the past couple of days. katheri katherine drexel is known in this city as the founder of the catherine drexel university. she and her family, they gave money to the poor. they helped the poor. they were good people. and it was on a tour in europe
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that she met people leo xiii and she told them about the plight of native americans in the west. she traveled in the west. and african-americans. and pleaded with him for the church to do something about that. and he said to her, what about you? you be a missionary. and she wrote heart about that moment. how she burst into tears. because, again, she was a good person. she was already doing some. but she was called to do more. i think it's a wonderful vocation story that can inspire young people. she did found a religious order, the sisters of the blessed sacraments. as george said earlier, gave her entire family fortune to build schools for native americans and african-americans. she wrote, as she wrote to president roosevelt about anti-lynching. she founded xavier university in orleans, an african-american school. it's a wonderful story about a woman who gave her life and fortune, also called to do more.
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when her cause for canonization was open in the late 1960s, there was an african-american federal judge here in philadelphia, first african-american federal judge who said if the protestant establishment and the rest of the american society cared as much about african-americans as mother catherine drexel did, the riots the last year, the civil unrests, could be completely avoided. >> you remember his name, alexander -- >> that was him. yes. she's a canonized saint. she's one of our holy heroes. she's also an amazing american hero. you know, remember in the republican presidential debate when they asked who should replace hamilton on the $10 bill and many of them couldn't name a significant american woman what about catherine drexel? >> mine would be eleanor roosevelt. great story about the judge. my dad worked in the court system down the street here on the parkway, on 18th street.
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one time he went up to judge alexander and said to him -- he's an african-american, real dignitary in the city. said, what should i call you, your honor or judge? he said, call me friend. he was that kind of a guy. >> well, catherine drexel said in the 1890s when their were some people who thought african-american women shouldn't become sisters, that they didn't have a vocation, she was the one that made the argument that yes, she should. she reached out. she did more than many bishops. the whole church really. for african-americans. when we talk about we need examples of women leaders in the church, there you go. i'm so happy pope francis raised her up as an example. >> the pope has been beautifully briefed on what cities care about, as you can tell by the conversation from kathleen there. how each city has its pride. new york of course has its affection for -- well, its survival of 9/11. and of course philadelphia has
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its heroes as well. let's listen to pope francis. >> we come to you and pray through the blessed virgin mary. we ask her to bring peace on all our prayers through christ. amen. ♪ >> let's bring in bishop about that. you were sitting here very nicely listening to kathleen, the professor, talk about the role of the lady. the pope only has so many speeches to give. only so many homilies. one of them right now was to say
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"what about you." what is the role of the lady. if you're not in the clergy, if you're not in the -- religious sister or religious brother. what's the pope asking people to do here? >> at the end of the bible, the end of the book of revelation, you have the holy city with the streets of gold, the gates of pearl. there's no temple in the city. it's a very weird thing. that's why -- the idea was the whole city has become a temple. all the elements of the city are a place where god brings grace. that's the goal of biblical revelation. that's the goal of the church. to turn the whole city into a place of great praise. who does that? the laity do that. there's your great professors, et cetera. i think honestly it's still a largely unrealized dream of the vatican, too. that has not sunk into the catholic consciousness. we turned very inward and
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debated about the interior life of a church. i think that's against the spirit of vatican. i think that's what john paul and benedict and this pope, francis, is saying. go out, go out. stop fussing with the inner life of the church so much and go out and sankt sanctify -- >> he kept saying "dialogue." if that's not to encourage conversation within the church what is it? >> it's to encourage conversation within the church and outside the church as well. dialogue does not mean turning the church into a debating society. dialogue within a certain framework. you dialogue about methods and means. we're not really open to dialogue about whether jesus really is divine. did he really rise from the dead. this is -- america is not going to dialogue with someone imposing a dictatorship. but outside of that, there's a huge world outside of that. we can -- >> well, how do you reconcile
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the church's life in america, a country now in its civil order has accepted gay marriage, same-sex marriage? how do you reconcile the church's doctrine with that? >> you don't really reconcile -- >> just in terms of members of your congregation. people come to church, a gay couple comes to church. they are a gay couple. they go up to communion together. they're catholics. how does the priest relate to that? >> here is the word dialogue or the word encounter. always, always, always reach out in love, openness in spirit, invitation. it doesn't mean -- >> but not recognition -- >> it doesn't mean anything goes. the church is also calling this a sanctity. you can't let go of the whole ideals. but you reach out -- >> i think the reason why people have accepted gay marriage in this country in a civil sense clearly is because the notion of a gay orientation is not any
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more of bath houses and people having gay pride parades which got over the top, but it is in a sense more focused on their love relationship than their physical relationship. and people understand there are such things as gay love relationships. they exist. and they go beyond -- they are sexual of course but they go beyond that to real human love. ohio does the church deal with that? >> the church can recognize elements within a friendship that are positive without compromising the call to the perfection. we're not interested in anything less than sanctity, holiness. we have to hold up the high ideal. francis comes into play here, mercy, the field hospital, those images assume there are people who struggle and fall short. it assumes imperfection. god is not merciful in himself. he's love in himself. mercy is when the divine love turns towards sin.
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the field hospital assumes people are deeply wounded. not mildly wounded. there's deep dysfunction. he hits both sides very well. acknowledging imperfection. but always reaching out in an attitude of welcome and -- >> let's take this to the campus level with father o'brien. when you talk to students, i mean, georgetown is a catholic institution, a jesuit institute. you have the crucifix on the wall. i love the fact you keep it there. you also have students there of all kinds and orientations. how do you deal with that on a pastoral level on a campus, with the modern world our young people are especially at home in? >> i think part of dialogue is we listen to one another. that's one thing that pope francis has taught us from the very beginning. is that before teaching or preaching or speaking, one must listen. listen to the experience of the other. i think in that encounter, as he calls it, we both learn something. we can still stand true to our
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principles and our beliefs. the encounter is critical. it's very central to a jesuit way of distournament. we listen to the experience of another. trusting god is at work in everyone's life. >> let me go to father kesicki. father, how do you deal with the latest conflict between the churches, not just the catholic church, and university institutions and hospitals, and implementation of obamacare? where institutions say we don't want to have a health care system which insures birth control. i'm sorry. we have to go back to the service for a second with the pope. >> the virgin mary, model of the church.
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the mystery of salvation so that by its power we may be sitting with society of the virgin mary and may be united more closely to redemption. [ speaking in foreign language ]
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[ speaking in foreign language ] [ speaking in foreign language ]
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♪ >> your thoughts about that, how we reconcile the things that are caesar's, the things that are god's, in terms of health care in this country, at the very moment right now we're facing an appellate court ruling, conflicting rulings, on how we deal with that fact, obamacare in a secular society which has religious institutions in it? >> let's remember pope francis' words at the white house. so much has happened since he arrived, but when he first spoke to us at the white house after the president welcomed him, he had a comment about religious liberty. and he stated that he was there alongside his brother bishops to support them in their desire, their fight, for religious freedom. and it was clear he was not
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directly or explicitly but addressing this issue and showing his solerty with the united states bishops. it was also -- i don't know if it was intentional but it was somewhat symbolic that after he left the white house that same day, he went and visited the little sisters of the poor. we know the little sisters of the poor are suing the obama administration over provisions in the health care law. the responses of various institutions from universities to secondary schools can ver from state to state, depending on the jurisdiction. but i think the church has a clear message. while it does support the offering of health care, particularly to the poor and disenfranchised. it is going to continue to represent its rights to freedom and its rights to its own moral teachings regarding its institutions. so it's going to challenge some of the provisions in the law.
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while trying to support any effort to bring health care to the poor or those who don't have access to it. >> father, there was hope that there was a reconciliation between the two sides, the secular and the religious. and then it became clear that the conference of bishops were not going to go along with any accommodation, which required that they put their signature to something dealing with birth control. even if it didn't mean -- if it did not mean they had to finance it or in some way underwrite it. is that positioning hardening from where it was in the initial conversation? when it looked like the church would say, okay, if the insurance companies want to insure someone free, we're not going to get in the way of it, but we're not going to put our hand to it. how do you see the final truce line coming, if there is going to be one? >> i think the u.s. conference of catholic bishops is always going to be very clear. bishops working individually with their own representreprese as well as as a conference, in
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dealing with the federal government. in representing the teachings of the church and what they hope for for its employees. i think catholic institutions want to say the entire institution is catholic, whether it's a hospital or a university. the mission of that institution should permeate the entire work. and so that's part of why they want their health care policies to be reflective of the very mission of the institution. >> well, it's going to continue that debate, with or without the church. let's go back to the mass at the saints peter and paul. [ speaking in foreign language ]
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ lead us not into temptation ♪ but deliver us from evil >> deliver us, lord, we pray, for every evil, that we see grand peace in our days. that by the help of your mercy, we may be always free from sin and safe from all threats. st. the coming of our savior,
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♪ for the kingdom of ours ♪ now and forever >> lord jesus christ. help us. peace i leave you. peace i give you. look not on our things but on the faith of your church. grant her peace and unity in accordance with your will. forever and forever. amen. the peace of the lord be with
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you always. >> let us offer each other the sign of peace. ♪
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♪ ♪ ♪
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>> behold the lamb. who takes away the sins of the world.
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♪ ♪
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♪ god who is mighty has done great things for me ♪ ♪ holy is his name ♪ his mercy is on those who fear him from generation to generation ♪ ♪ he has shown great strength with his arm ♪ ♪ disperse the proud and conceit of their hearts ♪ ♪ he has put down the mighty
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from their thrones ♪ ♪ and exalted those of no degree ♪ ♪ ♪ the hungry he has given every good thing ♪ ♪ while the rich he has sent empty away ♪ ♪ he has upheld israel >> we're watching of course communion time in the catholic mass. very familiar to all of us who have been to church our whole lives. this of course has a grand -- with all the hierarchy of the church right there in the pews.
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you can see the way they're positioned, according to rank in the church. and of course the pope gave a wonderful sermon about the role of the laity, talking about the life of and the role played by the church and let's bring in the president of fordham university and he knows about the role played to educate people and he knows about the role because adults come in their 20s and there they are becoming citizens of the country and of course members of the church, and father, mcshane, tell us, i m n mean, you must have been surprised that this is bigger than any visit of the pope that
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i can remember. >> i think it is, and for us in the jesuit university setting, it is especially big, because it gives us in a certain sense for us to use the pope's visit as a living textbook for the faculty and the students to engage in what is it meaning for us to prepare the students to go out into the world. one thing that we say all of the time is for you to know the usual jesuit line of the education whether it is the primary or the secondary or the common level, to have competent causes to the commitment of the family, and those are lines that we can mean, but they can be throwaway lines, but we want you to bilingual.
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and we want you to go out into the world and do the work that the pope was talking about, and that is the fact of turning out truly bilingual people who are speaking the language of the faith and that of the world and do it with extraordinary skill and effectiveness. >> well, we have to all go to work in the morning and you have pr pressures on you, and human conflicts and politics and sometimes things go wrong and somep times they go right and when do you encourage young men and women to speak up and say, i don't believe that, we ought to be doing this at work or stop making fun of that person or look out for the person at the
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bottom of the pole? when do you speak out and say, i don't mind people saying, i don't know who he or she thins s that he or she thinks she is? >> and you mean in the university setting? >> well, the scope of the person 25 or 30 or 35 years old and they know that the people around them are not behaving in the way that people should behave. i feel it once in a while, and i go, you know, i am a catholic and i do sense that not everybody thinks, and now people in other religions not often share my values as we have just heard. >> well, if you are the youngest or the most junior, and the dean tells the freshmen every year about one of the graduates who stood up even though he was a junior member of the firm and
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lost a job and got a much better one, because people admired what he had done. but we do thel them -- do tell them, it is your job and it is your vocation, your call to be the levin, the levin of morality in the world, and therefore to be pretty strong and forthright in saying what you believe. they really, they take to this in a big way. i would say that everybody who goes to the jesuit college or university in the united states right now learns this in class and out of class that they are to be a levin, a nd they are to be the voice for the voiceless, and also to be the voice for morality and for ethics, and in the world, and that world is the job they have. that is very, very important.
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one thing that i will say, and i know that he works for a different network therefore i should not mention his name, but one of the people who has been really encouraging, young people to live their faith, and to live it in the marketplace is colbert. he has an enormous impact on the young catholic, especially college-aged catholic, because he has, and he is very accessible to them, and he is really surprises them. when he says i love my church, and you should love it, too, and that means living in the message of the gospel everyday. i wish that we had more, more people in the public eye who would do that. >> oh, you are so right. i know him a little bit, and he is as true as you suggest, and he is a real catholic. he is really good, and you are right, father, and someone that people look up to for humor and
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when you go to bed at night the last voice you hear is steven colbert and that is right, and we don't mind talking about somebody from another network, and to me, fallon can handle the competition. >> i am glad that you can echo that, chris. just so you know. >> and let me go to you, father konsecki, you will not be learning the ethics on the job and you have to come in with them, and if you don't have a value about telling the truth and being basically honest and not stealing and being good, you won't learn it at work. >> well, i would like to respond to the homily of pope francis
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that he said to the young people to those the s a sassemble and watching on tv, do we challenge the young people? do we we share responsibility to them and give them part of the word? and do we give witness to our own with joy, enthusiasm and integrity? if we we want to instill ethics in young people, they have to see it in us. they also have to see us full of joy with what we are doing. so i think that we have hope that the inspiring overethical behavior, because he is a model of virtue, ethics and compassion and love and calling all of us with authority or moral authority or professional voice to do the same. >> we will go back to service now sh, and the mass at the cathedral which is, the cathedral of saints peter and
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paul in philadelphia. i receive this today, and i humbly pray, o lord, that the teachings of the church preached in the gospel will be speaking for the whole of the christ our
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lord. >> your holiness, cardinals, deacons, and bishops and friends of christ, philadelphia has been waiting a long time for this moment, and by philadelphia, i mean not just catholics but christians from every tradition, a vibrant and generous jewish commu community and our governor and business leaders who have given us wonderful support and people of goodwill from every walks of li life. this is a city that would change its name to francisville today -- [ applause ]
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-- we would do it if we could do it without offending the rest of north america, but we would do it with the enthusiasm and joy, your holiness, and this cathedral of saints peter and paul is the church home in philadelphia that produced two of my country's favorite saints saint catherine drexel and saint john newman and it gave birth to the first parish schools in the united states and a rich legacy of social service and catholic education. the priest, deacons and men and women and lay and faithful here from the church of philadelphia continue that great work with the witness off their life. holy father, thank you for
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celebrating the eucharist with us, and thank you for showing us your support for families, for marriage, for immigrants, for the young and the poor. most of all, thank you for living the gospel of jesus christ with the spirit of such joy that has reached into every heart in this cathedral, and may god grant all of us today, and the many thousands of people who have reached you this weekend a share in that same joy now and always. holy father, welcome to philadelphia. [ applause ]
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>> may the lord be with you. >> and with your spirit. >> and blessed be the lord. >> and with you. >> and may the lord bless you.
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in the name of the father and the holy ghost and the holy spirit. >> thanks be to god. >> and i ask you to pray for me.
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[ applause ] well, pope francis is just ending the celebration of mass here in philadelphia at the basilica of saints peter and paul, and delivered a homily of which he encouraged spiritual of women and lay people. and look at a this.
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and i think that this is spontaneous when he does this. this is not in the plan. this is a kid with paralysis, and quadraplegic condition. really, and tough lives ahead of them. ♪
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♪ ♪ well sh, what we will remem is the ceremony and the big arrivals in the big cities here, and the three big cities of washington, new york and philadelphia here, and the
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little moments. kathleen? i just feel for the parents. >> when i see the parents, and those children and see pope francis' obvious tenderness and presence is and he has such a gift whether it is addressing the head of the u.n. or the homeless person or the special needs child, and you can see how present he is, and how much it means to him to be close to those people. >> bishop? >> yes, i was moved by the whole thing and i'm a pretty hung up irishman and i don't get teary eyed much, but the pope, and the iconic cities of new york and philly and washington, and i was at the white house lawn looking over at the washington monument, and the crowd through the potomac river, and we heard about the windows here in philadelphia. i remember that i was watching the pope say mass here in philly and john adams wandered into a catholic church in the continental congress and he said that it was so enticing and
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beautiful that he wondered how we shook ourselves free of it, and then to see the pope in the iconic american sees to be so rapturously received, i just refle reflect. and then to see the pope address joint houses of congress, and then to see him reach out to the sick and the poor and the small, and the pope is really an alter christ, and that is really what you see in this trip. >> and now, take us from the cathedral here with the pope coming out here. >> well, the pope, and we understand he is not going to be coming out from the main entrance where he entered now, and he is going to be coming out from the separate exit, and now i want to pan to show you how
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many people are waiting for him to come out of here, and there are thousands of people lining up the street here. they are hoping to catch a glimpse, and as you can see, waving not at the pope, but at the camera, and they are hoping to see the pope soon, and that is what they came for, and now the pope has, they have all heard the message that he sent out to everybody here in the u.s. and to the world of course as usual which is what about you? well, that message that saint katherine heard through the years, and they are hoping to pick up on that message of how to really contribute to society in any way of course they can. and next, the pope is going to
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be going to the seminary to the charles borromeo where we expect him to receive a wild welcome from the seminaryians, and pope john paul ii is the last one to visit there, and i dont n't kno the if we have the video, but all of the seminaryians were told to behave, and when he entered there was cheering and wild screaming, and the pope loved every minute of it, and today, the rector and the bishop of the day said, look, guys, to the seminar iaseminarians, just you want, because the pope will love every minute of it. >> and i am glad that you mentioned leo the xiiith,
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because we have been fast nated since we learned about it, the cyclical navarum talking about how the market can't be the boss and you have to make certain intercessions in trade unions and social security and the rights of labor and children in the workplace, and all of the social policies and philosophies began technically in the 19th sep cli, and so it is not new that the pontiff would talk about those concerns. and on the personal level we saw something incredibly touching at the tarmac at philadelphia tarmac, he left the fiat, and went to talk to a young boy who we have learned is michael keating, and suffering from the cerebral palsy who is the son of
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the band director the of the airport, and look at this scene. this kid has a tough road ahead of him, and already a tough road, and cerebral palsy, and quadraplegic, and reliant on the amazing parents, and here is the pope. you know, i think that father o'brien, i think that this is an amazing thing to have to see look in your eyes as the pope has had that experience these the days of the tremendous hope. >> i am moved by an image like that, and let me go back to the homily as we heard as we marvel of the picture of him and with that child there at the airport and of him greeting the families after the mass, and the question in the homily is well, what about you? and chris, you and i and everybody listening are not off of the hook, and what are you and i and everybody else going to do now to reach out to the
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folk s ts on the margins like t with special needs, and like those, and chris, you are a supporter of special olympics and best buddies and what great the organizations to support, and what about you and me, and what are we going to do, because there is at love people from one part of the country to another who won't have the benefit of the pope coming to their city, but it means that it is folks like me and you and your l listeners who have to do something. i am deeply moved by what i see, but i am also challenged to want to get up to do something. >> yeah, i remember the guy that joined the peace corps back in the early 1960s and somebody asked why did you join the peace corps, and he said, nobody ever asked me before to do anything. >> and now we are being asked today, chris, what are we going to do? >> let me go to george weigel who knows the recent popopes th.
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a what do you think, george, the people who planned the trip had besides at a tending the conference on the family with this notion of the tour? >> well, chris, i think that he gave us the hint of that, and more than a hint in that quite remarkable homily at the cathedral of saints peter and paul today when he said that one of the greatest challenges facing the church in this generation is to foster in all of the faithful a sense of personal responsibility for the church's mission and to enable them to fulfill that responsibility of missionary disciples, and this is what the pontificates grand strategy s. pope john paul ii called it the new evangelicalization, and i call it the new evan gel cal
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catholicism, and at our baptism whether we were 6 or 60, and we heard the commission, go to make great disciples of all nation, and that is what katherine drexel did, and that is the connection of saint katherine drexel and the call to missionary discipleship in the 21st century, and let me try one more kconnection here to the conversation earlier to the broadcast. katherine drexel could go to leo xiiith and hear what he said to her, because she was convinced of the truth of the faith. and then she spent her life in service to that. that's what pope francis is trying to ignite in the united states, the idea that we have
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been given the enormous gift of the faith, and the idea that the gift will increase in us the more we give it away. and that brings us to the question of dialogue. obviously, the bludgeon is not the way to communicate the gospel, and this pope as the two pred secessors knows what p.k. chesterton said as we are sharing the chestertonisms says that an open mind like an open mouth should close on something. and the something in this case is friendship with jesus christ and understand iing that the gi as the gift that i must give away to others. >> well, i want to, george, stick with it, because i am listening to you and i learn so much from you, and we have the ceos and those are the christmas
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and the easter only catholic, and that is who they r and the sunday only catholics who try to get to church on sunday, and haven't been to confession for a while, and you know the syndrome, and try to get the kids to church with some minimal success and what is the next step for them, and they are not lapse catholics, but they would call themselves practicing catholics and the rest of the week for the hour of church, and they be late or leave early, and they may not get dressed up at all for church, and in fact, some people dress down for church now, and what is the next step that is reasonable, and a baby step, and come on, george, what is the baby step that gets us to beyond showing up once every week or so. >> and the baby steps that we can all do, chris, you, me, and everyone interested in deepening that friendship with the lord, i can think of three simple
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things. one, begin the day and end the day with prayer. it can be as simple a as the lord's prayer, the hail mary, the glory be and the consciousness of the evening, but begin and end the day in the presence of the lord in prayer, and secondly, ten minutes a day with the bible. this is something that the second vatican council tried to restore to the life of the ch church to get done and so to some degree of success, but we need the lord in his word. and we learn to look at the world through biblical lenses by reading the bible on a daily basis. and then, in between those sunday masses, drop into to a a church and just spend some time in the eucharistic presence of the lord. there is a wonderful story and the great curie of ours the 19th s century french parish priest who
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noticed the old man who simply peasant who would come into church, and sit in front of the tabernacle, and one day john vienni said to the old peasant as he walked out, "what are you doi doing?" and the old man said "i am looking at him, and he is looking at me." the pope has called us to a more reflective, calm mode of life in the hyperfrenetic 21st century with the simple way to live that is to pop into the local church for five to ten minutes and spending time in the presence of the lord a couple of time ss a week. >> george, you got me to that level, the one where you got me. >> the capitol hill church.
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>> and the german hill one. and i read this by william f. buckley, and forget the politics, but the story of the site of the man juggling balls at the altar with nobody else around because that is what he could do. >> and george, i would add dorothy day whom the pope referenced and she said that everything that a baptized catholic does everyday should be directly or indirectly reflected to the corporate world of mercy, and that is give the drin okay the thirsty and visit the imprisoned and counsel the doubtful, and still do work everyday and do it in a simple and concrete way and not abstraction, but do it, do it, and that is going to change your life if you start to do it. >> and we all have, kathy, relatives and extended family members, and there are options here, when people are old, and
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you call them up, and you e-mail them and come see them, and i'm not preaching. and i never preach morally, ever, but i don't do that, but that is the options there. >> and i think that what pope francis has done, and chris, i went through the jesuit university, too, like you. >> where did yo go? >> the university of scranton. >> father mcshane. >> yes. and i loved the jesuit groups, and it is with this pope and the interview with "american magazine" when it inspired me to get a little bit deeper into the jesuit spirituality than i have, but what is are remarkable about him ark and the way he is not just touching catholics, but he repeatedly says the people of goodwill, but he makes you think that the things make a difference in big issues like
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big issues. >> and we call them mits fa-- mitzvahs. and there they are at the seminary to meet him. so he is going downtown philly to what we call the other side of the river here on the city line avenue which is the better sort or the better money people out there, and not morally better, but the better off, and haverford and villanova, and upper darby, and the home of tina fey, and lower merion the home of kobe bryant, and i was thinking of the old singer colby grant, and we we will continue the pope's visit to philadelphia after this.
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we welcome back to the live coverage from philadelphia, and pope francis is on the way to the saint charles borromeo seminary which is right on the line, and he a has set aside a lot of time to meet with people on the trip, and as we said yesterday, meeting with the lady queen offane e gels there where throngs of students chanted, holy father, we love you, and the so-called francis effect is not lost on the millennials, and the so-called inclusivity, and
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thanks to the social media savvy, and joining me is the great president of the la sal university and joining me from newton, massachusetts, from boston college, and a better college the college of the holy cross in worcestera and much better school. and of course, it s as a matter of fact, i went to the high school. >> i know that. >> and now, let's start with the topics given to me. >> sure. >> and the pope got the after extremism, and we got after the islamic extremism, and a resemblance of the i.r.a. floating around over there, but it is basically east/west and why preach to the christians about the evils of terrorism, and isn't he preaching to the choir? >> well, one thing that the pope spoke about inning with and new york is that extremism can take place in any religion. >> but it is happening in islamic. >> i think so, but the reminder is for us to worry about what is at the margins wherever you are, and to focus more on the core,
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because if you look at the abrahamics religions, they have a awful lot in common at the core. >> explain that. >> judaism and islamic and christianity and the idea of having a place for god and treating your neighbors as yourself, it is common to all of them and it is what happens when the messages get distorted again at the edges. >> and so when god spoke to abraham in the beginning of it all, in the seminole religions of it all, how did it get into christian zealotry of it all, and your prince decided what your religion was, and your prince decided who to make war on. >> great question, but we have seen it is through the ages, and right now the focus is obviously on islam, but certainly, there have been times when it was a different e focus. >> how about inequality, and in this kcountry, we are focused o
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the issue du jour and we are always up to date whether it is the ljbt or whatever the issue is, and the pope is focusing on the family, and what are you seeing? >> the dignity of the individual, and you will see him again and again come back to that and when he is asked about the equal any the church, you have heard the comments over the last few days of the role of the catholic religion, and the nuns and the sisters and elevating them. >> let's talk about that, because when i went to holy cross, it was homophobic, and the country was especially men and especially irish, and fair enough. and today, how's it work on campus if a kid wants to form a, 17 or 18-year-old kid wants to have a group of gay kids meet, where do you stand at la salle
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university? >> well, i have been there for two months president, but i have been in canada for ten years where we had all sorts of campus organization, because the focus is on the dignity of the individual, and whether you want to gather around the cause or the commitment or the identity, then a university is the marketplace of ideas at the core, and those are the things that db. >> well, you don't have a canadian accent. >> well sh, i am working hard o it, chris. i can say a few of the outs if you want. >> and the sexual orientation, and the kid is gay, and doesn't hide it, you don't urge them to hide it? >> oh no. >> and transgendered, too co complicated for school? >> well, it is not too complicated, but you have to make sure that the rights of the individual who is transgendered are balanced against. >> and so you have a crucifix on
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the wall, and adhere to the catholic beliefs, and the traditional marriage concerns about gay behavior and that whole thing, you still acknowledge and tolerate and accept fully their being there? >> i think it is greater than tolerance, and the it is embracing the dig nity of the individual. >> and thank you for coming over from with orcester to a school is not quite as good as the neighborhood over there in newton, but we have to be tolerant of b.c., a little bit, don't you think? >> well, all right. >> professor? >> along with a little bit of the rivalry. >> i am kidding of course of the two great jesuit institutions in massachusetts, holy cross, the college of the holy cross and boston college, the new kid on the block, and tell us about the climate change because we grew up with the philosophy of how to treat women and children and not new for us who grew up in the
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church, but many will say what is the church getting involved in the climate change, and your response on e behalf of the pope? >> on behalf of the pope, there is a right of the environment to well-being, and this represents an important development in cath rick doctrine, and he is genuinely concerned, and though it is a hot button issue that he has gotten pushback for, he is right to speak about it. >> is it a life issue? >> yes, it is a life issue, and in some ways, you could argue it is the most fundamental life issue that we face right now, because it is a situational challenge, and what pope francis is doing is in some ways recalling, and expanding cardinal bernadine's seamless garment idea to include the climate. >> and cardinal bernadine is the late bishop of chicago, and what a great man he was, and now, professor, how do we deal with the question of immigration,
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because if you listen to real catholics like my wife and others, and they are so real catholics, and they don't believe in the borders and if you are born, and you are from mexico or guatemala, then come in, and that is the total liberal position, and people like me in the middle, if you get into the country for economic reasons, we will let you stay, but if you want to come in, there is a progressive way for letting you come in on a reasonable basis, but the government has a responsibility to the people to responsible citizenship, and you don't just pull the door open, but as a catholic teacher, what do you say? >> as a catholic teacher, it is complicated issue, because you are to welcome the teacher, and also to provide a social structure that ensures that everyone has basic human rights, and so i have to admit that i am a radical about this, and the way in which your family is,
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because i think that especially now with the greatest refugee crisis facing us since world war ii, and as christians we have a fundamental obligation to help those in need. >> well, it is great to have you on from holy cross. thank you. and do you -- i know that you are a expert on the theology of the papalcy, and can we expect something important in terms of the doctrine from pope francis? we have talked a lot about the kcome passion for people who hae found themselves in bad straits whether they are divorce and remarried and feel basically shunned by the church or they are gay or they have had an ob bortion, and he is seeming of how to think of bringing them back, and to counsel them, and to console them in the murky situations with regarding the church. can you see something coming from the -- i don't know what doors are open now. is married for the priesthood even open, and so some say
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dialogue, and i understand that completely, but how far can it stretch in the life of the papalcy say in the last seven years? >> well, it is hard to say, but i would say expect some movement to welcome fully divorced and remarried catholics into the church, and welcoming them into communion and as far as married priests go, there is an issue of discipline and something to be changed, but when the people talk about radical changes such as women priests, i think that it'll take a generation for that to be seriously discussed. >> what is the hazard of, you know, we all went through the priest thing and i don't want to overstate the horror of it, and we do, and there are victims out there all over the place, and probably predators all over the place that should be dealt with, but the idea of a married priesthood could be a separate way of being a priest, and a different way, and we have accommodated that within the
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church of being episcopalian and what has been the experience with them, fruitful or a problem? in what way a diversion from the priesthood for these people to be married? >> well sh, i think that you co argue that it is just making us in the latin right uncomfortable, because it is something new, but it is totally consistent with the christian tradition, and it does give witness to the importance of the family, and you could imagine or understand the diocese that is marry and those religious order s that remain sell bat. >> and the vows to keep us well, and the chastity to keep us well apart from the celibacy role. and i hope to get back to holy cross as i always try to, and thank you, professor, as it is great to get, the there, and to stuck up there for four year, because the winter is very cold, but a tremendous community spirit up there that you will find on the campus even if you
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are stuck in the snow sometimes, that you won't find anywhere else. and madam president, thank you. and the christian brothers have step stepped aside and let you become the president of the lasalle university. >> yes. >> and i tricked you instead of saying about with the accent. >> yes. >> and now, with the beautiful campus with the highline and you think of the high society and that the part of town in wynnwood that you can see, and all of the young priests start here, and here is the most important car in the world today, and here it is. >> the fiat. >> yes.
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[ applause ] [ sing iing in latin ] ♪
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[ applause ] ♪ happy birthday to you
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♪ happy birthday dear francis ♪ happy birthday to you [ cheers and applause ] >> december 17th is the pope's birthday. and that is my birthday. >> and i know that i taught at a largest seminary and these fellows are in the mid- to late 20s and they have entered the priesthood in the worst crisis and when i joined the priesthood it is something that the culture thought was terrific, and
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everybody thought was terrific. >> did your parents encourage you to go. >> they were great. >> were they surprised? >> not really and behind me but not in a pushy way. >> but these young guys, discerning, 12, 15, 16, it was in the middle of the storm. >> and they bought the stock when it was very low. >> and the parents were against them, and the friends thought they were crazy. but what is amazing we thought that the numbers would plummet, and first off all after the scandals, and the numbers are up all over the kun tcountry. >> and more rigorous to check on the people, and they don't want any problems coming in. >> and i find them extraordinary who discerned at that time, and came in at this time and that tells me that the holy spirit is operative in the life of the church. and so i find that in charles borromeo and others, it is very hard to follow the call, and they have, and so god bless them. >> there you have it. and these guys, you know, i was over there with michael steele with the elevation of cardinal
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wuerl over in washington and we know him, because he does so much with the catholic charities, and you meet so many happy and joyous priests because you think of the vows of poverty and chastity and for the rest of my livly be under orders and the people, and you can tell me that the hardest thing is obedience, and the rest of it, you can live with it. >> and the mission, and john paul got it, and this pope gets it, too, and george talked about the disciples of mission, and young men of course they like to be give n a mission. when i was coming of age, we were more feminized in the way we formed people, but young men want to have something to do and make it difficult, and pope john paul held up that ideal, and so does francis, and look at that, they are responding to that. >> let's go now around the horn as they say in baseball, and nbc's stephanie gosk is downtown in city hall, and the wonderful
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bow arts building there, and stephanie? >> yes, chris, you have been talking about how people are coming from all over here in the events from philadelphia and i am joined by a group here from a local school, and why was it important for you to come here today? >> well, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity for you the come here to have a chance to see the holy father, aed on the be in the midst of such a huge group of families and a great moment in the catholic church and a great opportunity for us, and what a better way for the kids to learn about their church and their faith and to see the holy father in person. >> you said it was a 10-hour trip in a minivan and this is a good group, and so how did that go for you guys? >> pretty good. >> any fighting in the car? >> no, we slept basically the whole way. >> and a trip to come see the pope, you should not fight in the minivan on the way here.
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>> right. >> and what are the impressions of philadelphia? what are the impressions of the security here in philadelphia? >> the security is pretty awesome, and i mean, that we have noticed the high number of police on the streets. when we were getting on the train, you know, some of the big weapons that you see. >> do you think it is reasonable that it is an appropriate level of security for an event like this? >> i believe so, when you were in the head of the church as large as the catholic church, and as influential as the holy father is, unfortunately, you become a target. so i think that is really, really important. on the flip sooishgsd i appreciate -- on the flipside, i appreciate how much pope francis wants to be with the people, and i hope that we can get close to him, and even a look in our direction is going to make us happy. >> and now, there are not a lot of hotel rooms in the city, and
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where are you staying? >> we are staying in a pop-up campper in new jersey. >> and a pop-up camper in new jersey? >> yes. >> and that is pretty rugged. >> well, there are other people that we have seen in tents so we are actual ly in the lap of luxury, and one of the ends of the camper has a queen-sized bed, so we have a lil space. we are all right. and we are roughing it, but. >> but more seriously, people like yourselves in campgrounds in the area, because there are no hotel rooms? >> absolutely. and lucky for us, very nice family met us last night and helped us to set up the camper at 10:00 at night, so that was great. >> nice to hear that the generous spirit is thriving and that you guys are making it in your pope-up camper. [ laughter ] >> and can the cameraman, stephanie, shoot up behind you and show city hall behind you?
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is that possible? >> yes. and bill, can you take a look at the city hall, and shoot up at the city hall? and give them a shot of what the building looks like? >> all of the way to the top. >> and it is the most tremendous city hall in our country. >> and look at a that. that is once, stephanie, once the tallest building in the united states, and that man at the top is william penn of course overlooking the state of pennsylvania. and this is so much a remind er of how grand philadelphia was before it was taken over by l.a. and new york, and so you are on east market street, and that part of the city between independence hall and city hall, and -- >> well, chris, i was going to say, too, that this week began with the pope embracing the constitution, and american democracy, and the ideals in
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this country, and it is fitting that he is here in the birthplace of democracy to end the whirlwind tour. >> right. i hope that we get a spot. and thank you, e stephanie, and so great to work with you on a happy day and not just in philly, but around the country. >> thank you. >> and now, to independence spot where kasie hunt is where the pope is this afternoon, and now, casey, give us a preview of what is coming around 4:30 today. >> sure, chris. you remember that the pope opened up the address to the congress by the home of the free and the land of the brave, and nothing exemplifies that more than independence hall where the constitution was ratified and abe abraham lincoln laid in state after he was assassinated and the podium that the pope is going to be speaking from today is the same lectern that lincoln used when he delivered to get
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gettysberg address. and i have spoken to people who have been waiting for six and eight hours long to wait to hopefully see the pope. i have talked to a pair of dental students from kansas city who are catholic students, and stayed with a friend three miles from here, and started to walkt at 5:15 in the morning in time for this, and i talked to a young girl who is 10 years old and her mother didn't speak english, but she said that her mom wanted to be here, because she wants to hear the message on immigration which she believes that her mom believes will make the country better for immigrants, chris. >> and i think that the folks would like to have a look at independence hall. can you ask the cameraman to
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pull back and take a look att a that. >> yes, that is where everything began here in the country, the declaration of independence by the second continental congress, and the constitution, and all of that and all of us really as a country, as a reality as a country in the world started right there in that building. i am so proud of the city, obviously, and that shot, the shot of city hall from the 19th century, and of course in the 20th century, the shot that we will see so much of tomorrow and tonight of the benjamin franklin parkway built in the 1920s and '30s with the franklin instit e institute, and the rocky steps as they are known leading up to the philadelphia museum of art. it is a beautiful city, and it is all there, and look at a that shot. it is very few cities in the world have this, what we call the most beautiful shot there, and look at that, the free
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public library of philadelphia it is called, and the streets are modeled after an african-american architect of the shachez ellezzai itself. we will be back with more from this beautiful city. hey babe, last one home cooks? ♪ ♪ ♪
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more beautiful pictures out of philadelphia and more thoughts and important thoughts for the country, bishop barron. >> well, the pope is called the vick kor v vicor of christ, and, and so i think that it has been very edifying for everybody. >> and i know that where the basement and archives are in philadelphia, i hope that at some point that he will thank the sisters of this city, and the sisters of the country when he expresses the joy of the sisters here to express that. >> and for the nuns, here, all right. >> yes.
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>> and thank you, kthleen sparrows for joining us. and alex witt is going to pick up the coverage, and stick with her. i'm chris matthews. thank you. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. you know, it's always bugged me that we couldn't say that, "cheerios are gluten free." oats don't contain gluten, but sometimes grains that do, get mixed in. so we took them out! which means now, cheerios can be enjoyed by everyone! just original cheerios? honey nut cheerios too, buzz.
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at this hour the sprawl of independence mall in philadelphia is filling up with what is expected to be hundreds of thousands all awaiting the arrival of the pope. good day to all of you and welcome to "weekends with alex witt" and a greeting of pope francis, and moments ago the

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